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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Qld
Honda claim that the VTR carbies are maybe the biggest ever used on a bike. Not only are they quite possibly the biggest, they are the easiest to upset by changing the location of the airbox relative to surrounding airflow or changing the airbox internally in any way or modifying the snorkel at the front of the box or even changing the filter element to anything other than the Honda original. In short they can be something of a bastard to get to run right in the Tri Pod configuration.

At this point I have clocked around 23,000kms on the prototype Firestorm powered original Tri Pod 1 in a variety of conditions, from the Sydney Harbour Bridge and tunnel to the horrendous so called roads of Cape York. The only thing that has ever really bugged me about the vehicle and in turn the thing I have spent the most time on trying to improve is these freaking carbs. Altitude change upsets them surprisingly easy as does denser or less dense air dependent upon humidity and temp. When everything is right they work fine and the car zings along cleanly and feels fantastic.

In an attempt to make it run as sweetly as those rare moments all the time, I am in the middle of fitting EFI to the prototype.

I thought I would document the process on here on the basis that Tri Pod builders using the otherwise excellent VTR1000F power plant may want to mod their own. I intend to offer the odd bits you need to make the throttle bodies fit available as a kit of parts as well as the map I end up with after tuning the ECU.

A bit of searching around will show that perhaps the best option in possible throttle body choice is the ones of he VTR superbike version, SP1 and SP2. I'm sure folk could come up with many alternatives but I found a set on eBay quite cheaply and grabbed them to see how they might fit, dreaming of course of them just slipping on...

Nah, the two engines are quite dissimilar and the TBs need quite a bit if 'tweaking' to physically fit. The kit will include 2 new side plates to bolt them together, possibly a new throttle linkage, manifolding and silicon hoses, Fuel rail adapter piece, SP1 velocity stacks, and adapters to allow screwing on of the existing Firestorm airbox. At this stage I more or less have it nutted out but until its running who knows.

This picture shows how they look in place. At this stage I have just 'cut and shut' the fuel rail, plates and linkage. This will do till I get the thing running.

ECU wise I intend to use - Microsquirt as per this link - http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/micr ... -c-35.html

I have used the Megasquirt product before with excellent reliability and performance and the price is perfect!

More details soon.

Andrew.

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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Andrew
I had no idea how much work was evolved in nutting out the EFI set up ,However you seem to have everything well worked out .
Hopefully after you ironed and finessed the setup it will be a relatively easy process to install and tune on the VTR engine .
A few question's for the benefit of all builder's (Planning to go the EFI route and judging by your experiences they should if they want optimum performance and enjoyment from their Tripod F1)

1) Will the kit come complete with everything required ?

2) As far as installation will it be a bolt up job ?

3) Will a Dyno Tune be necessary after installation ?

4) I noticed there is a nice stand alone dash mounted digital Air/Fuel flow gauge available from "Microsquirt" can this be incorporated in the kit as an optional extra ?

5) Should the EFI kit be installed after all check's , inspections , compliances and registration has been satisfied ?

6) Will this allow the use of High Flow , High Performance , Washable Oil impregnated Air filters and give an avenue to facilitate Cold Air Induction ?

Thanks Andrew
(I am sure I am not the only one with these question's)

Yours Enthusiastically

Rocket Rob

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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:59 am
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Qld
Hi Rob,

EFI is straight forward enough but time........ is the killer. Lots of little bits to get right.

Fit it whenever as three wheelers (as per bikes) are not subject to emissions tests in Aus.

The kit will include almost everything required. It will be more or less bolt together. Tuning not nesc (my resultant map included) but tweaking won't be a problem due to the completely customisable nature of the Microsquirt.

Personally I think 'high performance' filters are largely wank from a performance point of view but certainly they can last longer due to being able to wash them out. Not a problem using one. Tweaked map maybe nesc if I am wrong about them not flowing anymore than a standard filter....

Cold induction would need a map tweak but the new engine covers rear mounted 'twin' (must be good...) fresh air intakes will give reasonably un warmed air and those are the ones I will plumb to for my initial install.

Nothing done with EFI this weekend so far. Worked on pedal box prototype instead. So far so good with it. Maybe pics by Tuesday.

Talk soon, Andrew.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:00 am 
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Attachment:
VTR PIISTON KIT.jpg
VTR PIISTON KIT.jpg [ 4.69 KiB | Viewed 6561 times ]

G'day Andrew.
Found some info on a hot up kit (Tell us what you think)

Honda VTR 1000 Engine Performance Kit
Piston Kit:
The VTR 1000 piston kit has a compression ratio of 11.6:1 and is designed to the same standards as the original piston which means you do not have to run extra piston to bore clearances. Pistons come with circlips, rings, gudgeon pins and includes new head gaskets.
Camshafts:
The VTR 1000 camshafts are designed to the same specifications as original equipment thus maintaining compatibility with the remaining camgear. These camshafts have the same base circular diameter as the original camshafts however lift and duration has been increased.

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Last edited by Rob ( Rocket) Dixon on Thu May 01, 2014 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:22 pm
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Here some more:-
Following is a horsepower and torque graph with HPower camshafts and pistons installed showing a significant improvement over a standard VTR1000 Firestorm.

If you require further information, specifications or pricing please contact Bill Finnegan
The information contained herein is based on our testing and experience and is believed to be accurate. Since operating and installation conditions may vary significantly, and since we do not control such conditions, we must disclaim any warranty, expressed or implied with regards to results obtained from the use of H-Power products or the application of our techniques.


Attachments:
HORSEPOWER GRAPH.gif
HORSEPOWER GRAPH.gif [ 11.54 KiB | Viewed 6561 times ]

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 Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:23 am 
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And finally this :-
Honda VTR 1000 Valve Springs
Special Race Valve Springs and Retainers for Honda VTR 1000.
Honda VTR 1000 Velocity Stacks
Velocity Stacks for VTR 1000 are machined from solid billet alloy and increase engine power by 2-1/2 horsepower (as per illustration). The stacks attach in the same method as the original equipment with no modifications required.
I hope this is interesting


The Spanner Head From the South

Rocket Rob .


Attachments:
VTR VELOCITY STACKS.jpg
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VTR VALVE SPINGS.jpg
VTR VALVE SPINGS.jpg [ 5.65 KiB | Viewed 6561 times ]

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 Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 1:29 pm 
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This might have some validity about it .

I had read about cutting the sideways ridge off the air filter in the registry but the results where never exactly specified. I had also noticed that the K&N filter had no sideways ridge.


Attachment:
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BEFORE
Attachment:
airfilter_post FILTER MOD.jpg
airfilter_post FILTER MOD.jpg [ 41.46 KiB | Viewed 6557 times ]
AFTER

. Unscrew the 8 airbox cover screws. Remove the front two screws (do not drop them) or the cover will jam as you remove it.

Cut the ridge down to the level of the air filter element. Use cutters then file it smooth with a wood file. Neatness counts, we are talking about air flow here. Then unscrew the holder from the airbox cover.
There has been some discussion about what function this ridge performs. One theory is that it is simply there to reduce the intake noise.
This bike has stock standard carbs but is fitted with Staintune stainless low mounts with the baffles in. With this mod it burbles about 50% less, feels about 30% smoother and the throttle is 10% more responsive. While this may sound like an objective assessment it is, in fact, very subjective. The change is only small with the most noticeable thing being that it is smoother. Fuel economy seems about the same.
If you do not like it then a new air filter will cost you AUD$75 and you need to replace it every 18,000 km anyway.
Airbox Mods :-
What does not work on a VTR;
- Removing or modifying the snorkel (rubber inlet) - popular on VFRs
- Removing the air box cover while leaving the air filter in place - popular on Ducatis
- Drilling holes in the air box cover or air box

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 Post Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:58 am 
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Qld
Hi All,

A quick update on the VTR EFI project.

Thanks Rob too for your input. Just a word of warning though from someone who has spent vast amounts of time tinkering with the cantankerous VTR carbs..... Tread carefully

In my opinion I wouldn't touch anything in the Tri Pod install of this airbox and carbs. You have to shorten the snorkel by about an inch to get the thing running best and it works quite well at that. Enough for me to clock 25,000kms but anything other than the factory filter, not having the plumbing installed correctly (obvious), trying to run it with the snorkel off or the lid or the whole airbox off or using the wrong coloured screws and it won't just run badly, it will not run at all!!!! Small changes of altitude, weather etc stuff it up as well. Just the shortening of the snorkel to help with a leaner mixture than they would otherwise have with the change of airflow around the airbox in our install is all I would do.

To summarise - THE STANDARD HONDA CARB SET UP IS SHITE!!! Pleanty of carb gurus make excuses and suggest us un God like folk just don't understand them but anything that is this touchy is just plain crap engineering and very un Honda like.

Hence EFI project.

So far so good. All the normal frustrating things have occurred with developing this install but once done I suspect for most installers all will go very smoothly.

As at yesterday I have gotten it running but its far from suitable for driving. I suspect a couple of dirty or sticky injectors so I am onto that this morning as I have one cylinder running more or less at the correct mixture but other is quite rich and things seem to be varying so I need to establish the flow rate of these things, dead time etc and type that info into the computer and allow it to do its work more accurately.

The guess's though have gotten the thing running and frankly not a lot worse than the carbs so once it is all tuned correctly it should be as sweet as and it won't get upset by density changes etc.

Cost of the kit is still a little hard to predict but for those who use it it will be a far less stressful install than the one I am experiencing. I have developed a few EFI installs on vehicles that were either carbs or mechanical injection originally but I suspect this will be the real test of my endurance as even Honda had trouble apparently getting the SP1 to fuel smoothly. We'll see.......

Some basic pics below. None of wiring yet as it is still unloomed in case of mods being required etc.

Talk soon, Andrew.

PS. When this is right Rob we can bring on the big cams etc!!

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 Post Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:01 am 
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Oh and just a quick note. There are horns to sit on top of the intakes seen in the pics and of course it is all designed to use the factory airbox at the same mounted height as the original carb install so that in theory the efi kit will also work on the original bike (Superhawk - VTR1000f - Firestorm)

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:32 pm 
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Hi Andrew,

This is a great project! Has there been anymore progress on this?

I've recently purchased my first v twin firestorm (2005 model) and fuel injection is something I've been thinking about since I bought it. I frequently drag race the bike up here in North Queensland and while it's no record breaker, fuel injection would make for easy tuning with power adders- turbo, nitrous etc. When your first kit is complete let me know!

Cheers

Ben


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